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Casual and Damned

A Horus Heresy focussed blog from a group that includes a Casual, some of the Damned and our mandatory Tryhard. We don't roll 6's, We roll 1's

Narrative Heresy Part 2 - Lists

Nothing like a bit of WAAC-y races!

The Prince

11-Minute Read

Here we go again...

Oh boy, this one will be a little interesting in places, and very likely very grey. But bear with, there is a point to all this.


Intro: Lists and their purpose

In a hobby all about making and painting models, and sometimes getting them onto the table, lists are an integral element of the hobby. Inherently designed to created ‘matched’ power levels between forces (of course we know that balancing is a little more complex than this), the army list is designed as an order of battle, to show your opponent exactly what you’re bringing and what your models represent. A list is incredibly important as both a player and an opponent. It allows you as the commander to remember all the key elements your army has, whilst also allowing your opponent to see and fully understand your line of battle. Remember - even though heresy is a simulation wargame, we are not actually opponents trying to surprise each other, and in the spirit of fairness it is good and right to show lists to each other.

On top of this, your list is the most immediate way that you can tell a story with your models. You can design your army to a theme that matches the tale you’re trying to tell, or the event you’re attending. This in turn can help to dictate your style of play, be it hyper aggressive, tactical and logical, or sneaky and positioning orientated, which furthers the on-field story of your models and their heroics. A great list can immediately show an opponent your approach to the game, and the kind of battle they’re about to face – until maybe you subvert their expectations! It can also inform them as to what kind of opponent you are as a person – are you playing into ‘meta’ choices that don’t seem to make a theme? Are you seeming to pick units for no reason, or is there a clear running theme (i.e. ‘everything has breacher shields’)?

Importantly, it’s always worth considering that your list selection and list building is a part of your possible victory. You are selecting units with a plan on how to utilise them and field them, and presumably a plan to win (even if that plan is just unashamedly charging forwards). A poor list selection can hamper your choices, remove synergy, or outright lose you the game, whilst strong list selection can help you to have an advantage from the off.

So, this article plans to dive a little further into things, what do we see as a ‘Narrative list’, what would we consider a ‘WAAC’ list, and when is your list selection going ‘too far’?

Time to get building! Maybe.

Time to get building! Maybe.

WAAC List

Let’s get this out the way first. WAAC or ‘Win At All Costs’. The pathological desire to win that game irrespective of how you do so, even if that means sacrificing everything the game stands for, and all the social convention in between. It’s a consistent curse on the hobby, from the local group all the way up to national conversations. Its an element of wargaming that will never truly go away, and unfortunately for Warhammer the existence of a very strong tournament scene really doesn’t help. But that’s 40k, let’s talk heresy.

What is a WAAC list to heresy?

Its difficult to label a precise formula for a WAAC heresy list. But there are typically a few pointers that may give you an idea if your opponent has built to win , more than just to play. Where we say “meta” below, it’s in reference to the widely considered “best in slot” choice for that unit.

  • “Meta” Unit Choices: Some units are invariably better than others. And a list that utilises a lot of those units will immediately find itself winning more than average number of games. Multiple lascannon/fist contemptors, 10 man lascannon squads with techmarines, multiple leviathans with dual storm cannons. Etc. In small doses there’s nothing wrong with these, but start stacking them together and it becomes an issue.

  • “Meta” Legion/Rites: There are certain legion/rite combination that can make for incredibly un-fun opponents, even if they have some narrative elements to them. Again, this doesn’t immediately mean your opponent is a WAAC player, they could just really like the theme/legion etc, however if you can see they have selected these options to intentional just beat the snot out of you… then you have answer.

    • A prime example would be Fury of the Ancients when selected as Iron Hands. Why? Because Contemptors are already well priced and tough as nails, now you’ve just made it even harder to kill them, whilst negating half your opponent’s small arms fire.
    • Alternatively abusing a particular rite’s rules in a way to make it hard for your opponent to gain any edge/score – such as Sagyar Marzan list that consists of only infantry models (thus deny all possible kill points).
  • Bizarre/Un-Fluffy combinations: No, I’m not talking about an all-dreadnought White Scars list, which is just odd. I mean more something like combining Custodes with Iron Warriors, or a Stone Gauntlet list that includes a 50 strong Phalanx Warder Boarding company… and 3 storm cannon leviathans. If you are looking hard, and can’t seem to see a theme, then there may be a reason for that. Examples could also include:

    • An Iron Hands force with allied Ultramarines, taken only to include 10 Suzerains and attach even more characters to them to make a horrible deathball, and also run Ferrus Manus somewhere else in the list to cause more trouble.
    • A list that allied Raven Guard, White Scars, Mech, and a Knight household. To allow for a Librarian, a Stormseer, Thallax, and a Porphyrion.
  • Spamming units: Nice and simple one really. Have they made a cool diverse list with loads of flexibility and combat choices? Or are they running 3 units of Myrmidons, and 3 Thanatars? Spamming good units tends to result in very fixed playstyles that can rely on gimmick, or an opponent being unable to bring enough to bear to deal with them.

    • Of course, you can also spam naff units, which makes you a muppet, but not a WAAC player. I.e. if you want to have 4 squads of legion vets with shotguns on foot, no-one will stop you. We may look at you oddly though.

Of course this is not an exhaustive list, and doesn’t cover weird scenarios that may crop up that reveal a person to be WAAC-y or entirely normal. Some of it will absolutely come down to playstyle! But unfortunately spotting these sorts of lists is a bit of an art, and will come with experience.

That being said, bet you’ve all thought of at least one example you’ve seen though. Right?

Oh boy, everyone's favourite friend

Oh boy, everyone's favourite friend

So, what makes a Narrative List?

A clear theme.

I don’t just mean in the painting. I mean throughout the list and army from start to end you can see a clear single theme and story ringing true. The units and wargear have been selected in a way that’s not necessarily optimal, but really sells the characters and their narrative purpose. For example:

  • A Company of Bitter Iron lists running a Praetor with Boarding Shield, cyber familiar, and Volkite charger, alongside his Immortals. Still an incredibly tanky guy, but it fits the style.
  • An Alpha Legion Praetor armed with a Nemesis bolt rifle and little else, because you have no intention of your commander getting anywhere near a sword wielding nutter.
  • A Salamanders army that makes use of heavy flamer Heavy weapons squads in rhinos, as well as flamer predators, and boxnaughts with flamestorm cannons. Not an optimal set of loadouts, but you’ll make Vulkan happy!
  • A Dark Angels lists where every single unit contains a sword bearing knight of some kind… backed up by a literal Knight Cerastus or Lancer. As shown, this doesn’t mean the list doesn’t have teeth, but it tells a story, and visually strikes you from the moment you look at it.

‘Cool’ factor

Has the player taken choices because they’re the ‘best’ or because they are ‘cool’? Maybe there isn’t a specific story, but there are some really interesting or unusual models that you don’t normally see on the tabletop. Or maybe the entire list has been designed around a really specific awesome/silly idea. For example:

  • Legion recon company with a Pathfinder, and scout squads.
  • A Brass Scorpion, or a Thunderhawk.
  • A breacher heavy force, in a legion you wouldn’t expect to see them (like Blood Angels…)
  • A flying circus of Arvus lighters.

It just fits the Heresy vibe

I can’t necessarily describe this one. But you look at it, and it’s just like the player has lifted it from a Black Library book, or a page of the classic Black Books. It is just a setup that is synonymous with that legion, or that force, and they are absolutely going to town on it. This sort of list is often supported by conversions that try to recreate. For example:

  • The Triarii. A converted World Eaters force led by a ‘Delvarus’, with plenty of heavily armed World Eater despoilers and rampagers. An effective and awesome human wave of crazies.
  • Samus is here. A fully converted militia force, alongside the Daemon themselves – Samus. The militia have all been converted into faceless cultists, as Samus is always the man behind you…
  • Deliverance. A Raven Guard liberation force, with Corax and dark furies being supported by a full contingent of Auxilia in flyers. Its fast, its quick, and before you know it Corax is in your lines.
  • Death from above. A Night Lord list focussed on deep striking assault terminators straight into your lines, with squads of Contekar and Atramentar led by a Praetor/Warmonger combo. And a sacrificial collection of units to die during the first turn…

Storytelling and narrative extras.

Has your opponent gone the extra mile? Are their characters named? Maybe they’ve brought their own converted army tray or dice, or even a T-Shirt? A passionate heresy player can be spotted a mile away. Sometimes literally, because he’s a 6’1 goth with a face of makeup in his Legion’s colours…

Honestly, ask. You’ll be amazed by how many players just want to talk about their lists and the stories they have! These are the heresy players you want to keep playing. And if they don’t want to/can’t tell you much about their force then you have learned a bit about their passion for the hobby, and the probabilities of your game with them.

Some of my Isstvan themed EC list, only two vehicles at 3500pts, and 70 infantry

Some of my Isstvan themed EC list, only two vehicles at 3500pts, and 70 infantry

Self Sabotage?

Okay, I mentioned my Blood Angels earlier. Here’s a good moment to talk about the act of self-sabotage.

Sometimes you can come up with a legion idea that looks awesome, and feels awesome, and when you make and paint it you think it’s amazing… then on the field of battle it just absolutely flops. And not once, but repeatedly, against a variety of lists. And slowly you realise that all those really cool units just are too expensive/too ineffective/just aren’t actually enabling you to do cool things on the table.

This is a really sucky moment, and one I am literally in right now as I look at what to do with my Blood Angels. But unfortunately you’ll need to make a call here, and either:

1 – Change the list, modifying or removing units so to better spread of redistribute the points. Adding in new units, or entirely redesigning the way the list will play on the field (for example adding loads of transports to a formerly foot slogging force). 2 – Change the units, modify their equipment and loadouts, but keeping the overall same shape and size of the force. So, for example switching our predator turret weapons, or changing a regular sicaran for a punisher. 3 – Accept you aren’t going to win any games, and just have fun. Which sound easy to say, but loss after loss will grate on you. So maybe get a second legion?

I wish there was an easy fix, however ultimately, you’ll have to be your own judge here. Is your army fun to play? Or are you just suffering because you like the idea of the list more than the reality?

Ah yes, my catastrophic failure force.

Ah yes, my catastrophic failure force.

Conclusion: The Art of picking your list for your event.

Of course, as mentioned last time there are different styles of heresy events you can attend. And the mark of a sensible gamer is to consider the possible opponents and structure of your upcoming event, and build a list to match it. If you know you’re attending a tournament, with a cash prize, then absolutely go full throttle on that WAAC list. However, if you’re attending a narrative event, with a focus on new players, then maybe leave the 50 Phalanx Warders in Land Raiders at home.

Unfortunately, this sort of thing is an artform more than a science. And the more you play heresy, the more you’ll learn about how everything works and forms. But as a heavily narrative player, I really do recommend a few key things when considering how you are going to assemble your next army and list.

1 – Does it tell the story you want it to? 2 – Do you find the units cool/interesting/fun? 3 – Will this be fun for an opponent to fight?

If you can assemble a list that says ‘yes’ to all 3 questions, you’ll do alright!


(For reference, almost every example given in this article, is a genuine list one of our team has either seen, fought, or run. No I will not name names.)


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Just a group of Collectors, Painters and Players from the North(-ish) of England that want to share our hobby and thoughts on all things Heresy.