And here it is, the awaited Legacies document. The one that will fix all the problems with 3.0, will correct all the ‘mistakes’ GW made, will return everything to the glory that is ‘proper Heresy’. But we have to ask, does it? And remember, I’m supposed to be the optimistic one from our little group.

As a note, sometimes you may find us dropping our ‘real names’ into this discussion. Sometimes it’s easier to recognise each other by that over the screennames. Especially if you use several with Steam, Instagram, etc, etc. But also, because the guy we call our ‘Tryhard’ isn’t really¹.

What’s Missing?

Let’s get the obvious out of the way with at the top, there’s still a handful (or more depending on personal taste / collection) of units and options that are no longer available. The not comprehensive list includes the following:

• Nullifactor Consul and Squad.
• Various named characters (from Farith Redloss to Erasmus Golg). This is doubly odd when characters like Autilon Skarr are listed. A model that was only ever an exceedingly limited release a lot of Heresy players couldn’t even get at the time.
• Alternate weapon options on Consuls. Looking at you Siege Breakers.
• Extra equipment options on certain units. Apothecaries get neither a jump pack nor bike options.
• Rampager’s don’t get jump packs, as an example of something that was an option and now isn’t.

And some returning units like the Attack bike are also ‘box-locked’ with only a Heavy Bolter or Multi-Melta as options, compared to the Autocannons they used to be able to take in 2.0.
Now that that’s out of the way, onto our thoughts. Mine may lean more towards the Legions, as my understanding of the Mechanicum and Solar lists is quite limited. But that’s why I have a group.

Anything Surprising About the Legacies Document?

• Casual: They added options to units that I honestly did not expect to get said options. With the way the main Liber books are, and the box-locking (as the community is calling it) approach of numerous units, I was very surprised to see some things coming back. Vexilla’s on Deathwing Companions, combi-melta’s on Headhunters. There might still be some things missing in comparison to the freeform options that were available in 1.0 & 2.0, but the fact that these options are all in here is a good thing. It still does paint a clear divide between ‘in the book’ and ‘optional extras’ that might rub some people up the wrong way.
• Prince: Seeing the return of models such as the Ordinatus Belicosa is admittedly wild to me, thats a model that had rules in 1.0 and spent the entire last edition without any support at all. Similarly, the multiple variant baneblade options for solars remaining is really nice/surprising to see. Above those, just the general size of the document, and the sheer scale of new/re-included models is honestly impressive. As a veteran of GW products, you get used to losing some units each edition, but this document is almost a retention of nearly every existing unit. Which is unfathomable by GW’s usual standards.
• Tryhard: I’m simultaneously surprised at just how much stuff they’ve crammed in to this (very big positive), but also that they seem to have missed (or specifically chosen not to include) certain options that seem only logical to put here. For example, they gave Imperial Fists back their assault cannons for heavy weapons teams, but not on terminators like Blood Angels can take. Why? Who knows, especially when the resin kit for them is legion non-specific. Similarly, it’s good that Solar Auxilia can now take tarantulas, but they’re locked to only being able to select the options which were available to the old resin forge world kit, and even then not all of them. Clearly there are forces at play which we mere mortals cannot comprehend, I just hope that GW are paying the eldritch document writing beast well these days.

On a First Read, Any Unit that Stands Out?

• Casual: The Excindio Battle-Automata was always a weird unit from its initial concept in Black Book 9: Crusade to the oddness of its 2.0 version that was the only Automata/Dreadnought-like unit that didn’t have some mitigation for Instant Death. Now it’s running around with Eternal Warrior (1), Hatred (practically everything that counts), it doesn’t need to lose an arm to take a gun and it’s a Champion.
  It can play the challenge mini game. What!?!
  I guess I need to convert this up sometime after I get started on the Word Bearers. Because it’s just mad, and you can still buy the Auto-Destruct button. Running this into an opponent’s Centurion/Champion Consul and then exploding it during the same sub-phase is just a little silly. And I love it.
• Prince: The Delegatus is a big one to me. Adding the ability to have a second apex detachment dramatically changes how you can build and assemble armies, particularly in re-creating many of the older Rites of War. Similarly, the Mortifactor and his Contemptor drinking buddies will undoubtedly see plenty of play on the field, and the Forgelord with his Thallax, just because they can add new flavour and possibilities into a list without burning a detachment slot. My Ofanim somehow managing to cost the same and retain almost every single element that made them fun last edition, was a pleasant surprise. Similarly, the return of the Phoenix rapier was a nice thing to see! And with Impact (D) and Breaching (6+) it’s not a shabby weapon at all! Although the big two that really stand out are the new Veteran breachers, because they are cool, and the Tartaros Siege Squad, because I suspect a unit stocked with all heavy weapons will prove very entertaining.
• Tryhard: Iron Havocs are cool for getting the Autocannons at “half price” compared to a normal HSS squad, but are more expensive per model to balance that. Terminator Chaplain with CL10 seems very nice, increasing to CL11 if he’s in Cataphractii and in a Heavy unit. Maybe an all-Tartaros sieges squad with a Mortalis Moritat will be good? Firestorm on a bunch of Heavy Flamers or Plasma Blasters seems decent. The Forge Lord giving Thallax back is nice, and perhaps it’s a good thing that they don’t get Legiones Astartes anymore.

Hot Takes: The Good

• Casual: I’m going to repeat myself, but the mass of options being available is good. Different mounts for nearly all the Legion non-named Characters, the return of some of the missing Consuls, the extra options that some of them give you. That is good.
  To give an example, I moaned in the last joint post that it was a hard thing to justify taking a single Dreadnought when you could just use the Logistics benefit instead, and that the Aux slot only giving you 1 was a hard thing to justify when you could take 4 tanks of varying types as an Aux detachment. The opportunity cost was too high. Someone in a comment pointed out that you can just take the Logistics upgrade for a Dreadnought when taking the Apothecary detachment (or other such detachments), and that is exactly the problem I was talking about. Why take a Dreadnought when I could just take something I wanted and then tack on the Dreadnought as an afterthought. The Mortifactor adds in a Dreadnought detachment, granted it’s Contemptors only so none of that triple Mhara Ghal in one option nonsense, but that in itself gives more list-building options. These kinds of things are great.

• Prince: I’m glad to see the flavour back, and the options. As a narrative driven idiot, I’m not looking to Legacies to provide me with broken/powerful things. I just want to have options that are fun and characterful. Things like Alchem weapons and shrapnel bolters fulfil that exact role and losing them from the Libers was a loss of some of the narrative soul of the game. Certain legions also are still currently lacking in almost any character without these units and rules (IW), so it’s good to see them preserved.

  As I mentioned with regards to the Consuls, more options is always a positive, so seeing both extra consul options and Consuls with jump packs/bike/terminator armour is really nice to see. It keeps armies varied, it keeps list-building interesting, and it opens more options for people to build bigger forces and make more models. I can’t see this as anything other than a positive for the hobby and the game as a whole, as the more people are willing to buy in and make more, the more we can inspire others to do the same. The hobby ceiling of heresy is high, and more opportunities for players to make and try new things only helps to keep raising themselves towards it!

• Tryhard: I’m very glad that we have jump pack and mounted consuls back, and I think it’s a genuinely positive change for them to be allowed to do things like replace the weapons on their bikes. I’m not sure why riding a motorbike makes you less intelligent than other marines of your rank, but I’m sure there’s a reason for that design somewhere. The Delegatus in particular is a lovely bit of design, with the additional apex detachment having the capacity to compeltely reshape some forces. Veteran breachers are a lovely choice and very flavourful for some legions, even if they’re not “good”. And who could forget dear Boxnaught. Not quite the gun platform powerhouse it was last edition, but still a funny little fella who’s capable of going out there and wreaking some havoc. Gravis missile launcher and a Chainfist with a Meltagun would be my go-to for this guy, send him off up the board to poke some tanks.

Hot Takes: The Bad

• Casual: I cannot justify why GW didn’t include the various Legacy Wargear options in the core books. As I look at the Word Bearers Legacy Wargear I have to ask why wasn’t Tainted Weapon in the main book, it’s just a paint job / kitbash with a 40K component they sell. Why aren’t the Warpfire guns in the main book, that’s just a paint job. I can kind-of see the reasoning behind ‘box-locking’ certain kits², like the Gal Vorbak or Deathwing Companions. I can even see why they wanted to make Legion Champions locked to Paragon Blades since they were given one for free every time in 2.0 but it was always more efficient to have a Thunder Hammer instead or an extra Specialist Weapon. Your Champion is a Legion Champion, they’re given a weapon that only the ‘best’ warrior of the Legions has access to, I can kind of see that idea coming through.

But. Warpfire weapons are just a paint job. Shrapnel Bolters is just a paint job. Asphyx Bolters is just a paint job. These are all bits that are somewhat iconic to the related Legions and they had to be added in as opposed to being in the books themselves. Lock the Deathwing Companions to what’s in the kit, give me the option for a Vexilla elsewhere since that’s a modelling option? Sure, okay. Same with a Meltagun on a Gal Vorbak. That’s where, to make it look ‘good’, I’m going to need to put some effort in and it’s not easy to do out of the box. As I said that I can understand. But funky weapon swaps to make a Warpfire Plasma Support Squad not being in the book. Bleh.
Oh and no jump packs or combi-weapon options for Apothecaries just winds me up a little as that mode is the only thing left from the swap to 3.0 that is still invalid from my Alpha Legion/Custodian project.

• Prince: It is very clear by this point that the 3rd edition of this game was a brainchild created off the initial feedback of the first 12-18 months of Heresy 2nd edition. And this Legacies document definitely exemplifies some of those points. The two named dreadnoughts, Rylanor and Telemechus both losing almost all character (and any additional stats) are prime victims of the bat dreadnoughts overall took to the face. Similarly, the raised costs of the humble boxnaught. Alongside them, the ‘strong’ units of the last edition all took various ’nerfs’ of different levels. Fulmentarus still cost a small mortgage in points, the Inner Circle Order of the Broken Claw were brought in line with their mainline brethren (and stripped of any weirdness), Iron Havocs and Sunkillers both lost their BS 5, and whilst Iron havocs retained their ’no cover saves’ element the Sunkillers were not so lucky. At 15pts more than a standard heavy weapons squad with the ability to fire at BS5 once per game only at a vehicle, they are very much a shadow of their former selves, especially is you have them with culverins.

The point about those two kinds of brings me to a separate point similar to Lees. If they are reducing these unique units to “It’s the same base stats but with an extra ability”, then why not have them as an upgrade? Hell, if you wanted to be cruel make them a prime advantage for legion special detachments. It just seems wild to me to dedicate a whole page to units like the Broken Claw/Sunkillers who could easily have just been a 15pt upgrade option for the Legion. It’s the attitude they’ve already taken with Sicaran variants. The same with the Terminator/Jump Pack/Bike upgrades. This document is so damn large because everything now apparently need a unique statline, when it really doesn’t.

• Tryhard: I don’t really have much to say here that hasn’t already been done to death by either my colleagues or the community at large. The one thing I will say is that in some cases now, I think there might almost be too many options. If I were a new player coming in to this game, I would be hard pressed to analyze the Legacies document and work out what I wanted to build or not. The other thing is that not everything from 2.0’s Legacies made it in to these ones, so I think for the most part, I won’t be fielding many Legacy units in 3.0 either for fear of them not making it to the faraway land of 4.0 whenever it happens (probably in three years time, as much as it pains me).

Hot Takes: The Spicy

• Casual: I don’t care about balance. If you tell me a unit is over-costed or under-costed in the Legacies doc, and it’s a cool option for one of my projects, I’m going to convert and play it. The Excindio is a great example, it’s 180pts base and jumps to only 220pts when adding double Graviton guns and Graviton flux projector (template weapon with Pinning (3) and Shock (Pinned)). Seems a little nuts.
  Not enough? A real spicy take? Converting is optional but is not accessible. Adding options like Terminator or Bike Consul variants gives you the option to convert, putting that same option into the main book means people will consider it an entry requirement to be able to play certain units. For every ‘it’s easy to make a Jetbike Praetor by using the plastic parts and adding bits from xy kits’ build there is always the ‘how easy is it to model a servo-harness on a Terminator Forge Lord’. If you have the skill, great, these options give you the ability to flex that. If you don’t have that skill, those units / options might as well not be there for you since you can’t build it.
• Prince: Truly spicy? Okay. I have two.
  1. This is one of the bigger community wins we’ve seen when faced with a new edition. And it shouldn’t be understated how out of character for GW this is. As someone who played Imperial Guard from the start of 4th edition to the end of 8th, you just got used to losing things. We’d be given characters and models that would only stick around for an edition (looking at you Macharius, Gaunt, Chenkov…) or characters that didn’t have models at all that got annihilated barely a few years later never to be heard of again. They included Forgeworld units in core codexes, only to remove them next edition (in a period where many stores banned you from playing Forgeworld publications!). In other words, gutting their existing models and rules is normal for geedubs. And to see them pull a 180, and produce a legacy document this big, it a real win. So in that vein if we have lost a few units, then thats the lumps we have to take. (Not including Sisters of Silence in that statement. That was a travesty).
  2. Some members of the community need to realise that the soul of first edition was the way it was because the community was not a GW mainstream. Conversion was necessary and the rules could be more open because FW simply could not produce every option, nor was it obligated to. But that was over a decade ago now and this is the sacrifice that is made for having the amazing levels of mainline support and investment that we have now. If you want the attitude of 1.0 to remain then you have to be the one to promote it. You need to be there at the local FLGS showing the cool legacies units you can make, and the interesting unit coversions you have done. You need to get off the internet and actually fight to change the local face of your hobby. Attend events, run events. Don’t just sit there and moan about the influx of ‘40k’ players, go and meet them at the door and disabuse them of the GW standardisation.
• Tryhard: Destroyers are shockingly not awful. Not only are they no longer an elites choice, but with the advent of the Delegatus-Double-Apex build, you can take quite a few of them in your army via either Officer Cadre for lots of centurions, or something like an Iron Warriors double Hammer of Olympia list and then you can even have prime destroyers. Having Vanguard does make scoring challenging, but a Master of Signals can solve that, and rad grenades will do a number on power armoured infantry en-masse if yuu want to make use of Vanguard. Double points if you play World Eaters and take Red Hands, as they don’t have Vanguard, so can hold objectives for full points after fighting units off them.

Any Final Thoughts?

• Casual: I think I’ve annoyed enough of the community already. I really shouldn’t type when I’m hungry.
• Prince: I really look forward to trying many of these units out, and seeing what people create with them! Jump pack master of signals for example…
• Tryhard: I commend GW for putting this out, but I’m saddened by how some of the community behaved in order to have it happen.

In Conclusion

Some things we like. Some things we don’t. We’ve not had a chance to play with any of these units yet, the document only went up today / this week (depending on when this gets published).

But for now, we’re signing out, logging off and putting glue to plastic.